Off the grid or have a real backup for utilities?

[Zimmy]

I'm trying to figure this shit out for the farm. Does anyone have actual working experience in owning or installing home utilities? Between solar electric, solar heating, geothermal heating, battery banks, wind for water, wind for electricity, diesel/gas/propane generators.................I'm overwhelmed.


Who knows what fucking works and is expected to continue working with minimal maintenance? I can fix almost anything that doesn't take an electronics engineer, but a huge logistical train of regular replacement parts is bad juju.

I've got water filtration taken care of for 36 months or so if off the grid in an emergency.

For everything else, in a week I'll be back to the 1870's. Which is doable, but not comfortable.


I'm especially curious what you've seen in poor and/or undeveloped countries that works. The literature I'm seeing is pretty heavy on expense, gadgets, and bling. I'm sure some fucker in Pakistan, Bogata, or Rhodesia has jerry rigged the same results with some ugly and tough contraption that meets his needs.

[Ops NCO]

Hell, you're a step ahead of most just to be thinking about it. One of my life-long dreams is to have a home that is as self-sufficient as I can make it. Gonna have to win the Powerball to make that happen...

[K.M.I.A]

Zimmy I've done some research on this my self.The most fesable seems solar,I read somewhere that a series of three used forklift batteries can power a home for a long time.They said sometimes these can be picked up somewhat cheap because they won't power a forklift anylonger but still hold quite a charge.

[abnbull]

Dennis, never thought about forklift batteries before! I've heard of people using marine batteries and golf cart batteries.

Zimmy, here's a pretty decent article on off grid batteries:

http://www.countrysidemag.com/issues...x_A_Ewing.html

[Ironmike]

...Does anyone have actual working experience in owning or installing home utilities? ...

We had a whole-house backup generator installed four years ago. Runs on natural gas. It's a Cummins backup generator that uses a six-cylinder Ford engine to drive the power generation equipment. Comes on automatically about 17 seconds after the power to the house is cut. It also automatically exercises itself once a week for 15 minutes. It's given us power through two or three multi-day power outages in Winter months. It was NOT cheap. I had a contractor install it and tie it into our home power. They sell generators and transfer switches at Home Depot, and they can help you with instructions on installation if you want to do it yourself. I would have a qualified electrician tie the transfer switch into your home circuit breaker box.

[P-Chop]

Saw a show called "Off The Grid" with the guy from Survivorman. He used marine style batteries with a solar trickle charge to run his house and well. Old batteries should be easy to stock up on...some expense on the solar panels I'd imagine.

[Feetasshead]

I would say solar is more effective. The return on investment seems to be equal or negative, the cost for solar is high. It is the primary power source I will most likely use.
Wind seems to be iffy at best but I guess if you lived in an area where it is steady, not too bad.
As for batteries for storing the solar production I have heard about yacht and golf cart batteried.

In our area Zim, I would say solar is the best choice. You just have to get very efficient bulbs and appliances. Propane is a good backup for your water heater and cooking but it is not as renewable as solar.
I am hoping when I retire that solar technology is more efficient and will last me until I kick the bucket. My Feetasshead Compound will be solar powered.

[Zimmy]

We had a whole-house backup generator installed four years ago. Runs on natural gas. It's a Cummins backup generator that uses a six-cylinder Ford engine to drive the power generation equipment. Comes on automatically about 17 seconds after the power to the house is cut. It also automatically exercises itself once a week for 15 minutes. It's given us power through two or three multi-day power outages in Winter months. It was NOT cheap. I had a contractor install it and tie it into our home power. They sell generators and transfer switches at Home Depot, and they can help you with instructions on installation if you want to do it yourself. I would have a qualified electrician tie the transfer switch into your home circuit breaker box.

Mind saying what that ran you out of pocket? I'm pondering a propane or diesel version as we don't have gas in our area.

[Bell]

Anything run off batteries is 12 volt. You'll have to install new wiring and light fixtures.

[LOOON]

Ive seen an add for a solar powered back up generator.

[K.M.I.A]

Anything run off batteries is 12 volt. You'll have to install new wiring and light fixtures.

I believe there is a converter for that.Also Homedepot and Lowes sell solar generators,also northern tool.

[rockwellB\co1\508]

Solar works,But Its expensive to get a large enugh bank to do more than a few light bulbs,we used battery banks when I lived in alaska for the hunting camp and had to run the generator daily to keep things charged.Propane refrigerators work pretty well,you can put a heat coil in a wood stove to heat water ,or a wash tub on a coleman stove,5 gallons of water will give a ok shower if you rig a shutoff valve.you can still get gasoline powered ringer washers and they work well but a generator is great ,I have a Honda 3000 ,it's quiet and starts every time around $1700. I use a coleman lantern the single burner that uses blazo or white gas 5 gallons will last for month's and allways works!

[Ironmike]

Mind saying what that ran you out of pocket? I'm pondering a propane or diesel version as we don't have gas in our area.

Zim, it was 30K turnkey. They did everything, I did nothing. Part of the problem was that I have a lot of computer equipment in my house because I work at home and I needed for that equipment to stay up if the power went out for a long time. This meant I needed a large genset, and a large genset is heavy and needed concrete piers to hold the weight. Needed a small crane to put the bitch in place. I wrote part of the cost off as a business expense. In retrospect, I oversized it and hence paid more than I needed to.

If you just want to do extended backup power for your lights, heat, and appliances at your home or farm on propane, it would cost you a lot less. Shop around a lot. Prices for genset contractors vary greatly.

Have you considered a wind powered generator? Parts of Texas have steady wind most of the year.

[Zimmy]

Wind is an option as well. The big problem I'm having with wind power is cutting through the bullshit to find hard numbers on reliability vs cost vs maint intervals vs output on the little small single user size turbines. Most of the "facts" out there are veiled advertising or hopeful forecasts concerning reliability. My company (Suez) has about a thousand of the utility company sized ones. I just have figured out who a good SME is in the Wind Division yet. Those guys don't mingle much with us coal/wood/gas burner plant grunts. Too sexy.

Full capacity generation looks to be about $40k with wind turbines right now. With less turbine output and more battery bank I can cut that some but it looks like an iffy gain. Anticipate battery bank replacement costs run pretty high if you're on a budget on the front end. Turbine lifespans are kinda vague for me to have confidence yet. I have seriously considered a small one to charge a small bank primarily for the well pump and water filtration system.

If that came out as gibberish it's because I just woke up. I'll fix it later.

[CharliePC]

I know a guy who is totally off the grid. He uses a wood stove, solar, air and a generator. The generator isn't whole house and it's only used as a back-up and when the AC is needed.

I've thought about doing this myself, selling my present house and building a new one into the side of a hill so the heating and cooling would much less of a requirement.