AF Looking for 100 Light attack/armed reconaissance aircraft.

[SOWT]

Shades of Viet Nam:
The Air Force wants to find a fixed-wing light attack/armed reconnaissance (LAAR) aircraft that it can field beginning in Fiscal 2012. Aeronautical Systems Center at Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio, issued a capability request for information last week to "explore cost effective options" to fill a need for 100 such aircraft. This aircraft must be able to operate from dirt fields at forward operating locations where the pilots will find jet fuel and not much else. According to the announcement, "the aircraft must be capable of employing a variety of air-to-ground weapons and munitions," including aerial gunnery, at least two 500-pound class precision munitions, 2.75-inch rockets, and flares. This new irregular warfare aircraft is to have dual, tandem seats with dual controls for both pilots, enabling it to function as either a combat or training aircraft, and its supposed to be armored against small-arms fire. There's no indication whether this platform would fill the new light gunship capability desired by special operators. USAF has said it's investigating several platforms, but US Special Operations Command in late June said it still wanted a C-27 gunship. According to the announcement, the service would like to achieve initial operating capability with the LAAR aircraft in Fiscal 2013.


My guess is the Super Tucano or an armed version of the T-6 Texan II. Too bad re-opening lines is so expensive, because the OV-10 would be a great fit here.

[GERONIMO]

During Viet Nam the only air support on station in the Mekong Delta was an aircraft the Navy supportrd us with called a "Black Pony". I don't know the aircraft nomenclature. It was simular to a WW11 twin engine fighter bomber. It had a split fucelage and it was a solid bomb and 20mm gun rack. It had twin turbo prop engines. It was awsome and it could put a bomb on a dime. There are many out there in production that could be used but millions will have to be spent to come up with a new model that has flaws that will cost millions to correct. Just my openion.AIRBORNE! GERONIMO!!

[Falschirmjaeger]

I think they are feeling the pressure from NAVSPECWAR going out and trying to bridge their CAS need.

http://www.military.com/news/article...eal-plane.html


Super Tucano, looks like you have some work to do.

[SOWT]

During Viet Nam the only air support on station in the Mekong Delta was an aircraft the Navy supportrd us with called a "Black Pony". I don't know the aircraft nomenclature. It was simular to a WW11 twin engine fighter bomber. It had a split fucelage and it was a solid bomb and 20mm gun rack. It had twin turbo prop engines. It was awsome and it could put a bomb on a dime. There are many out there in production that could be used but millions will have to be spent to come up with a new model that has flaws that will cost millions to correct. Just my openion.AIRBORNE! GERONIMO!!

Black Ponies (VAL-5) flew OV-10 Bronco's.

[Mortarman11c]

Why do you have to bring race into this?? Why can't they be just Ponies?

[Zimmy]

My dad flew Broncos and Texans back in the day.

[SOWT]

I think they are feeling the pressure from NAVSPECWAR going out and trying to bridge their CAS need.

http://www.military.com/news/article...eal-plane.html


Super Tucano, looks like you have some work to do.

Actually, no.

Complimentary programs, not competing programs.

[SOWT]

Why do you have to bring race into this?? Why can't they be just Ponies?

Screw you, shouldn't you be crew resting or some other faggot activity.

[Falschirmjaeger]

Actually, no.

Complimentary programs, not competing programs.

Sorry, you missed my implication. What I meant was that the AF is very jealous of their CAS Role, even though they don't think it's "sexy." When the other services start looking at buying aircraft to fill a mission role, the AF rushes into try and fill the gap.

Remember when the AF was whining about the A-10s? The Army said "fine, we'll take 'em" and the AF got all hot and bothered and kept them. http://chockblock.wordpress.com/2009...-for-the-army/

The Army argued that the Key West agreement of 1948 (under which they were prohibited from operating fixed-wing combat aircraft) was now obsolete, and that the USAF’s A-10’s should be turned over to them for use alongside AH-64 Apache helicopters. In 1990, Congress decreed that some USAF A-10A’s and OV-10 Broncos be turned over to the Army and Marine Corps beginning in 1991.
– A-16 Close Air Support
F-16.net

Congress made the Air Force retain the A-10. The OV-10 would be phased out of service.

So my point here is that the Navy looking to procure the aircraft got the AF off its butt.

In short, what I was saying is not that the "programs" are competing, but rather the services are competing over who fulfills that CAS role. Frankly, this is inter-service rivalry-type bullshit that the OV-10's aren't still around.

Further, a 19-year hiatus for CAS community means a corresponding loss of experience that could have been handed down. The last thing the AF wants now is a crack in the wall, with NAVSPECWAR filling the CAS gap. The next thing you know, the Army will be saying "Look we need the same capability, the Night Stalkers should have this aircraft." After that, it's a slippery slope for Big green to start fielding more fixed-wing combat aircraft.

[Mortarman11c]

Build more A-10s!!!

[italyjumper]

Build more A-10s!!!

Amen to that brother. A 10s were the most bad ass platform for us over there. Those guys were top notch and we had a real connection to those guys during our deployment. One of our guys in Able Co was an artist with a chainsaw. He grew up on a farm and his grandad taught him how to carve elaborate sculptures with one.

Well on patrol, he would scout out choice pieces of wood and throw them in the back of a hummer. He had his dad send him a few chainsaws and he made awesome carvings for the guys. He made a sculpture for the A10 pilots and got a plaque made for it and flew to Bagram and presented it to those guys in recognition for awesome support...

I will buy an A 10 pilot a beer anyday of the week......

[SOWT]

Sorry, you missed my implication. What I meant was that the AF is very jealous of their CAS Role, even though they don't think it's "sexy." When the other services start looking at buying aircraft to fill a mission role, the AF rushes into try and fill the gap.

Remember when the AF was whining about the A-10s? The Army said "fine, we'll take 'em" and the AF got all hot and bothered and kept them. http://chockblock.wordpress.com/2009...-for-the-army/

So my point here is that the Navy looking to procure the aircraft got the AF off its butt.

In short, what I was saying is not that the "programs" are competing, but rather the services are competing over who fulfills that CAS role. Frankly, this is inter-service rivalry-type bullshit that the OV-10's aren't still around.

Further, a 19-year hiatus for CAS community means a corresponding loss of experience that could have been handed down. The last thing the AF wants now is a crack in the wall, with NAVSPECWAR filling the CAS gap. The next thing you know, the Army will be saying "Look we need the same capability, the Night Stalkers should have this aircraft." After that, it's a slippery slope for Big green to start fielding more fixed-wing combat aircraft.

No, I got your point. I know for a fact that the Navy and AF are working this together, so this program compliments the one the Navy is running. Attack the problem from multiple directions and see which solution works. It will be a SOCOM solution, not an ACC,AFSOC or Navy solution.
The big ego'd little dick folks are working together to get a quick solution. Hopefully we get to see the results.

[Jeff82]

[Falschirmjaeger]

No, I got your point. I know for a fact that the Navy and AF are working this together, so this program compliments the one the Navy is running. Attack the problem from multiple directions and see which solution works. It will be a SOCOM solution, not an ACC,AFSOC or Navy solution.
The big ego'd little dick folks are working together to get a quick solution. Hopefully we get to see the results.

Hope so!