Hearing protection vs "real life"?

[LadyDoc]

Okay, I've got another set of dumb questions...

I have been pretty anal retentive about hearing protection in my shooting/learning process. My dad had some hearing loss, which was only partly occupational, the rest was I think from a lifetime of hunting.

But something occurred to me the last time I was at the range.

If you train only with hearing protection, does that affect one's performance when in a real-life shooting situation? ie: Would the unaccustomed noise (that you haven't trained for) make you flinch, or screw up your aim or otherwise mess you up?

Does the military even use ear protection in training/on the range?Obviously the military uses lots of things that go bang loudly, so maybe you have other opportunity to get used to that, but how about LEO's, or private citizens who have fired in self-defense?
Does the noise even matter, with the adrenaline screwing you up enough as it is?

Anybody wanna give me some insight?

[Recon133]

I did a ton of Duck hunting and sport shooting in my younger years, including black powder. Never used any hearing protection and am paying for it now. My ears ring like Church bells, and I have lost some of my hearing. Most people don't flinch anticipating the "boom" they flinch anticipating the recoil.

[Ops NCO]

I don't know what the active duty guys are doing today, but in our day we routinely live fired without hearing protection...and we paid for it. To this day, I have some hearing loss in a particular range, especially in the ear closest to the receiver. I remember one year they had to re-conduct the hearing test for the entire company because we all failed it; we'd just done a live fire a few days before.

My vote is to use the hearing protection when you shoot for practice. In the self defense scenarios you're likely to find yourself in, your ability to keep calm and shoot straight (and first) will be the keys to you walking away. Besides, you can't train to bleed.

You only got one set of ears; don't ruin them. That's my .02 worth.

[Mortarman11c]

In a shooting or other high stressful situations the human body goes through a strange phenomenon called tunnel vision and tunnel hearing. I myself have experienced both.

http://www.virginiacops.org/News-Res...c06/tunnel.htm

The hearing almost shuts down and it's sounds like small "pops".

In one of my cases EVERYTHING slowed down. It was like watching a movie in slow motion. Of course mine happened at point blank range when a guy went for my gun. I threw up my non-firing hand into his throat as I turned my weapon side away from him, I got my weapon out of the holster and barely up when he grabbed for my firing hand, I jammed my pistol into his left side just below the ribs and pulled the trigger. I rememebered looking down at my pistol as it went off....I heard the "click" of the trigger, I heard a small "pop", I watched the slide go back in sloooooooooooow motion, I saw the shell eject with smoke curling out all in slooooooow motion, and over all that I heard the guy screaming NOOOOOOoooooooooo just like in a slow motion movie. As soon as that happened, something in my brain "clicked", and everything sped back up to normal speed.

Weirdest damn thing was that my ears were not ringing after the shoot.

And I know this story sounds cool....Mortarman blasted some jackass in a firefight?? Not in real life, this happened in TRAINING, with real pistols yes, but using simunition ammo. But the training enviroment was real...in this case in an airplane fuselage, ULTRA close quarters combat situation. The ammo hurts like hell, but is not lethal.

Even deer hunting this year when I killed my buck from 65 yards away over open sights (thank you...) with a 30.06, I never heard the weapon go off......

The body has strange ways of protecting itself.

[LadyDoc]

I don't know what the active duty guys are doing today, but in our day we routinely live fired without hearing protection...and we paid for it. To this day, I have some hearing loss in a particular range, especially in the ear closest to the receiver. I remember one year they had to re-conduct the hearing test for the entire company because we all failed it; we'd just done a live fire a few days before.

My vote is to use the hearing protection when you shoot for practice. In the self defense scenarios you're likely to find yourself in, your ability to keep calm and shoot straight (and first) will be the keys to you walking away. Besides, you can't train to bleed.

You only got one set of ears; don't ruin them. That's my .02 worth.

Oh, never fear, I wasn't really planning on practicing sans muffs, but thanks. I was mostly just having one of my random "Hmmmm" kind of moments, and wondering what folks had experienced who had BTDT.

Your Entire company failed the hearing test?? Wow.

[LadyDoc]

In a shooting or other high stressful situations the human body goes through a strange phenomenon called tunnel vision and tunnel hearing. I myself have experienced both.

http://www.virginiacops.org/News-Res...c06/tunnel.htm

.....

Thanks MM, that was an interesting article. Good story too. Congrats on the deer.

[Ops NCO]

In a shooting or other high stressful situations the human body goes through a strange phenomenon called tunnel vision and tunnel hearing. I myself have experienced both.

A bit off topic, but I think the Doc would appreciate the info.

What you're describing, Loadmaster, is a function of part of the brain called the Reticular Activating System (RAS). The RAS does a lot of neat things, but the thing you're describing is where it acts as a "filter". The RAS will block out or allow certain information to become noticeable (or not noticeable) consciously.

It's the same thing when you buy a new care, say a red convertible. You never noticed any on the roads before, but now it seems like you see them everywhere. That's the RAS at work both times. It works to allow what it believes is important information to be noticed consciously.

Interestingly, much of the repetitive training combat troops go through is to consciously train the RAS not to discount potentially life saving information during a fire-fight. One of the items that came to light in the Tillman investigation was the possibility that some of the members of his platoon got "target fixation" and literally didn't see things outside the target they were engaging. Of course, that's why we've trained like we do, so that (hopefully) doesn't happen when the rounds are flying for real.

But it's very difficult, especially in a true life-or-death situation, due to the brain's obvious priority on self preservation, to keep this from happening. I'm sure there are many active duty guys/girls with combat patches that can speak first hand to this (not academically as I am).

That's one of the reasons we train, as much as is practical, like we're going to fight.

[Ops NCO]

Your Entire company failed the hearing test?? Wow.

Yep, we sure did. We didn't know it until about three months later (if memory serves me) when they showed back up again to do the test. That's when they told us why they came back. The chain of command had figured out our live fire a few days before had to be cause.

[GERONIMO]

As a Drill Sgt, Marksmanship Instructor, Range NCOIC and Combat Infantryman I would say that what your concerns are are lagitimate. Range practice is certainly worse on the ears than any other shooting. On the range the high frequency noise of not only your weapons but of others is death to your eats. Fireing in combat a person cannot wear hearing protection because of not being to hear other things that are going on. I wore out an M-16 in Viet Nam. When I turned it in it was sledge hammered and junked. When hunting most don't wear hearing protection because of the need to hear your surroundings. I now wear hearing aids in both ears and have tinitus. My left ear rings constantly. If you are right hander shooting a rifle the left ear gets the mayority of the noise as the right ear is away from the reciever. In your situation you need to have good ear protection on the range. ALL military are SUSPOSED to use issued hearing protection on the range. As for selfprotection the noise of fireing is just more noise and is inevitable if you need to protect yourself.AIRBORNE! GERONIMO!!

[VoTrooper99]

I have binary tinnitus (ringing in both ears) and some hearing loss from my time in the military. Background noise really screws with me. It's tough to hear what people are saying in that situation.

In training sometimes I would wear protection and other times not. On the range I always did. In a live fire or a force on force (using blanks) I just about never did. I tried it once or twice but it prevented me from hearing what was going on around me. This included distant gunshots, shouted commands, and other things that you HAVE to hear in a situation like that.

The egghead Army doctors always said you should wear hearing protection at all times, but that isn't practical in training. It's even less practical in combat, where they STILL say that you should be wearing ear plugs. That being said, even if you were to wear earplugs every time you went on a patrol, that still isn't going to save you.

My hearing problems got alot worse after a couple mortar incidents. When you get shelled, and they land close, there is nothing you can do. I had this happen to me a few times on a FOB (Forward Operating Base).

Unless I wear earplugs 24/7, how do I defend against that? You can't.

When I was on active duty we had a little trick that was shown to us that helped, but didn't prevent hearing damage. We'd stick cigarette butts in our ears. It deadened the noise, but didn't eliminate your ability to hear. It still did some damage, but not as much as if you had nothing.

These days they have some earplugs that allegedly allow you to hear low decibel sounds but stop high decibel sounds. They aren't the big, bulky headset, they're plugs. I've never used them, but I'd be willing to give them a try.

When I'm shooting for my job (not on the street) in a training environment, I wear protection religiously. I carry a set of earplugs in my duty bag. I know I'll never get to use them if the shit hits the fan, but I've used them when I've had to shoot rabid or wounded animals.

Tinnitus sucks...no such thing as silence. It takes a while to get used to. Wear hearing protection whenever you can!

[Mortarman11c]

Oh I forgot to add...I too suffer from tinnitus to both ears. Years of not wearing ear pro whilst dropping the mortar rounds. Just couldn't get my fingers in quick enough during some live fires.....Now after 20 years on jets with over 4500 hours in the air, I ALWAYS wear double protection. Soft ear plugs AND a headset.

When I shoot I have custom made inserts that I use.

[Ops NCO]

These days they have some earplugs that allegedly allow you to hear low decibel sounds but stop high decibel sounds. They aren't the big, bulky headset, they're plugs. I've never used them, but I'd be willing to give them a try.

That's really what's needed. An earplug that protects you from the big damaging noises, but let's you maintain situational awareness and hear commands and other things going on around you. That's the only way to protect your ears and get the job done.

[italyjumper]

One of the first things we bought for our guys were Peltor Comtac 2 headsets. With all the firing and stuff, these headsets were absolutely awesome. They fit perfectly underneath a helmet. You turn them on and once a loud noise goes off, the muffle the sound, and then immediately go back to being able to hear everything around you. Alot of units use them with their communications gear in order to hear your comms and then also have dual hearing protection. There is a great deal of great kit out there for hearing protection.

But when shit hits the fan and you dont have the time for hearing protection, that phenomenon that Al describes is spot on.

[frybyrd1]

Back in the day we were issued earplugs in a little plastic container that was worn on you're collar. Never used them. Cig butts always for reasons stated above. Still have tinnitus in both ears but then again, I used alot of C4

[bg]

1. Always wear hearing protection while at the range. Always, always, always.

2. During a real, life-threatening emergency, lack of hearing protection will not interfere with your focus. HOWEVER your ears are still taking damage from the noise. Just like with any severe physical injury, your mind can block out the sensation of, say, getting an arm ripped off but the damage is still done.

I have some low volume ringing in my ears and I sometimes have difficulty focusing on a person's voice when there's background noise. I count myself lucky that I've never been in close proximity to munitions or gunfire without hearing protection.

Hell, I wear earplugs when I go to concerts. I usually hear better with earplugs because they dull the "white noise" and high frequency overload that otherwise would drown everything out. I wore them at an AC/DC concert and I was able to hear all the music and could still clearly hear my girlfriend whenever she said something to me.

I still have the plugs I was issued in basic training. I wear those when I play the drums, go to the range, or mow the lawn.