SEAL’s death prompts look at shoot houses

[AK Airborne]

We lost 2 guys back in the neighborhood the very same way . It hits the family particularly hard when it happens in training . I would think (I have no firsthand knowledge) that a family can better accept a son that died in a confrontation with the enemy . This conjurs up a special feeling of pride when your offspring had the balls to "get it on" with the bad guys . A death in training seems such a waste to those that are uninitiated . I think (once again , no firsthand knowledge) that I would rather have visions of my son standing on a burning tank outside of Falujah with an M-60 in each hand screaming insults at a horde of tangos while laying down a field of fire that would give Patton a woodie before going down in a blaze of glory . I know these things happen but when it hits close to home the word "accident" adds to the hurt and loss . RIP SEAL .You are at your reward . Now EVERY day is an easy day . You earned it .

[blackflagg509]

RTP SEAL.

[MAC11B3V]

It is quite possible that 'vest' was actually a plate carrier that affords no ballistic protection of it's own whatsoever. As far as ammo goes I would bet 50% 5.56 and 50% chance it was a .9/.45 sub. Rifle ammo I could understand. 9mm tends to penetrate, .45 is designed to stop. I think .45 would be iffy (how flimsy are these gravel walls?), and as far as 9mm goes, if it did have soft ballistic inserts in all the vital places around there, it should have stopped it. At least that's what we've always been told, right guys? From the IBA to the IOTV.

[Doug]

Penetration: read the engineer manuals on 'field fortifications': NATO 5.56mm require min 18" packed dirt to provide cover, 7.62mm (AK) requires min 24" pack dirt barrier to provide cover. Those are just standard rounds, larger powder charge (NATO 7.62mm MG v 7.62mm AK) and grain (.50cal) rounds require even greater density and depth to provide cover to soldiers on the protective side from the shooter.

Armor: Upper left of the armor (as listed per the article) is where the IBAS plates fold back and there is only '9mm' worth of kevlar protection. One of my best buddies took three rounds in the back from a second story shooter, all struck his armor and only one was stopped by the plate, the other two grazed his heart on either side. Upper side strikes that pass through the arm pit / shoulder are particularly lethal even through the armor. That is why when you see troops fighting (my guys at least) didn't use classic IMT but used maneuver (more like armored forces) to keep plates to the enemy.

I was never in a hostile house that WOULD have stopped rounds from the next room over. Bad guys can shoot through walls at you. It is a situational awareness thing, knowing where your teammates and background are when you are pulling the trigger.

flip side

NOTHING chaps my ass more than the lazy-complacent bastards who hide in cushy jobs waiting on a fucking gov't pension check, only making their shit 'look good' with paint and putty, but they fail to properly build on a TO STANDARD foundation (on what ever it is they are supposed to maintain). That fucker needs to look at jail time for manslaughter and endangerment for EVERYONE he passed through that range, because you can't tell me had he DONE proper maintenance on the complex, as was HIS responsibiity, that he wouldn't have found missing PLATES. Deraliction of duty that cost a soldiers life should not be conscienced or coddled. Ignorance is NOT an excuse, because knowing is a job qualification. He knowingly endangered soldiers by not maintaining his fascility, or he knowingly endangered soldiers by accepting the job he wasn't qualified for and not bothering to do it while falsifying records stating that he did do his job. Either way it defaults back to knowingly endangering soldiers. That fucker should fry.

[SOWT]

NOTHING chaps my ass more than the lazy-complacent bastards who hide in cushy jobs waiting on a fucking gov't pension check, only making their shit 'look good' with paint and putty, but they fail to properly build on a TO STANDARD foundation (on what ever it is they are supposed to maintain). That fucker needs to look at jail time for manslaughter and endangerment for EVERYONE he passed through that range, because you can't tell me had he DONE proper maintenance on the complex, as was HIS responsibiity, that he wouldn't have found missing PLATES. Deraliction of duty that cost a soldiers life should not be conscienced or coddled. Ignorance is NOT an excuse, because knowing is a job qualification. He knowingly endangered soldiers by not maintaining his fascility, or he knowingly endangered soldiers by accepting the job he wasn't qualified for and not bothering to do it while falsifying records stating that he did do his job. Either way it defaults back to knowingly endangering soldiers. That fucker should fry.

??? It was a private shooting facility not a Government run shoot house.

What Lazy Government Official should have watched the private company build a shoot house?

[Feetasshead]

Shitty way to die. R.I.P.