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Thread: SEAL’s death prompts look at shoot houses

  1. #1
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    Default SEAL’s death prompts look at shoot houses

    (RIP Operator 1st Class (SEAL) Shapoor “Alex” Ghane)

    SEAL’s death prompts look at shoot houses

    By Gidget Fuentes - Staff writer
    Posted : Friday Mar 6, 2009 16:09:23 EST

    SAN DIEGO — Investigators faulted lax range safety oversight that contributed to the shooting death of a Navy SEAL during live-fire training, according to a report.

    Special Warfare Operator 1st Class (SEAL) Shapoor “Alex” Ghane, 22, was shot in the upper left corner of his protective vest after a bullet pushed its way through a ballistic wall of gravel beds and plastic retainer walls Jan. 30, 2008.

    It was a fatal blow to the Coronado, Calif.-based SEAL Team 5 member. The SEALs would later find out that the ballistic walls lacked the steel plates required in similar Navy live-fire training houses.

    Few knew that just two days earlier, during another training run, a SEAL suspected that a round had gone through an interior ballistic wall of the same shoot house. The SEALs were training at the Mid-South Institute of Self Defense Shooting in Mississippi.

    A Navy investigation into Ghane’s death found the ballistic wall was defective and poorly designed, with “an insufficiently thick gravel wall, exposure of the interior gravel to changing weather conditions and the lack of a ballistic steel plate within the wall.”

    Navy Times received a redacted copy of the investigation through a Freedom of Information Act request. Officials blacked out any mention of the type of ammunition the SEALs used that day. A representative for Mid-South did not return calls seeking comment.

    ‘INADEQUATE’ SETUP
    The lead investigator questioned the integrity of the exposed ballistic walls in the uncovered area of the shooting house, designed “ad hoc” by the general manager. The area had been pounded with heavy rains the night before Ghane’s death.
    The facility’s “inadequate” maintenance “focused more on the appearance of the wall exterior and tops than the condition of the contents inside the walls that stop bullet penetration,” he wrote. Ballistic testing done six years earlier was “inadequate.”
    The investigating officer, whose name was removed from the report, criticized the Navy and his own command.

    “While multiple factors, including the weather, ammunition and tactics may have played a role, Naval Special Warfare’s inability to detect that the ballistic shoot house was not designed, built, maintained or tested based on formal objective standards was a systematic and critical failure,” the investigator wrote.

    The private range facility never was formally inspected for safety or certified by the Navy.
    “As such, Naval Special Warfare shares a collective responsibility,” the investigator wrote.

    He recommended that the command establish written instructions and new checklists “so component commands have consistent guidance to inspect and ensure safety of private ranges.” He suggested a formal inspection program with Naval Facilities Engineering Command to inspect all Naval Special Warfare ranges.

    Capt. Thomas Brown, Naval Special Warfare Group 1 commodore, agreed with the investigation and ordered a new range inspection process at the group level.

    Since Ghane’s death, Naval Special Warfare Command banned the use of standard ammunition at Mid-South’s close-quarters-combat course, but chalk or plastic rounds are allowed. The same rules apply at civilian close-quarters ranges, unless they are inspected and authorized to be used for live training, spokesman Cmdr. Greg Geisen said.

    Link:

    http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/0...ooting_022609/


    De Oppresso Liber - RLTW

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: SEAL’s death prompts look at shoot houses

    Rest In Peace,Seal.

    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those that mind don't matter
    and those that matter don't mind." ~ Dr. Suess

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    Default Re: SEAL’s death prompts look at shoot houses

    We had a similar incident. However we had shrapnel strike an officer not an actual round. In our case the shoot house had been degraded by the use of ball ammo. Our Shoot house is now sitting there not useless.

    Gentle Winds and Following seas sailor
    Last edited by Ferret_LE426; 03-06-2009 at 07:38 PM.

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    Default Re: SEAL’s death prompts look at shoot houses

    R.I.P
    Ca'veat - Let Him Beware










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    Default Re: SEAL’s death prompts look at shoot houses

    I know that a couple times I was at OP 13 hanging out between iterations when the took some soldiers who were substandard into the trench for remedial training.

    They were hitting the bunkers with live bullets and fake grenades. We were a ways away but right as they were spraying rounds into the trench I heard the snap of a bullet in the air. I'll never know how close they came, but it was close enough.

    What's going on with Navy vests that a bullet can pierce a gravel wall, exit, and then penetrate a ballistic vest? I'd like to hear that one!


    **2006 APO NCAA Bracket Champion
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    Default Re: SEAL’s death prompts look at shoot houses

    Rest in peace.

  7. #7
    101pfdr

    Default Re: SEAL’s death prompts look at shoot houses

    RIP

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    Default Re: SEAL’s death prompts look at shoot houses

    R.I.P. Brother!!
    "We deal in lead friend."...Steve McQueen,The Magnificent Seven 82d Abn Div: 1983-86
    OIF: 2007-08
    Retired NYS LEO/NRA Life Member
    Colt Gov't & OM/Glock 19&26/Ruger SP101
    Still Love Ya Sarah !! I will NOT Comply!

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    Default Re: SEAL’s death prompts look at shoot houses

    Damn sham when a death or injury occurs, but the training has got to be the real thing at this level.

    In RVN we had to go thru a 2 week Combat orientation course on Hon Tre Island.

    Everybody coming into group-even REMFS who had little or no weapon training.

    We were put into recon teams and did live fire maneuvers which got pretty scary, all things considered.
    Especially the "break contact" drill where you had to fire a mag and wheel and run past the guy behind you who was firing his mag at where you had been.
    Nobody hurt in my cycle, and it was an eyeopener.

    Worst thing happened was the school CO coming out and taking over some safety training-he immediately shot a guy's hat off his head.

    Condolences to the SEAL's folks.

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    Default Re: SEAL’s death prompts look at shoot houses

    RIP.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: SEAL’s death prompts look at shoot houses

    1st, may the seal rest in peace. 2nd, my sympathy to his family, and thank-you for producing such an elite soldier. 3rd Navy, of all people, know about steel, they should have had 3/4' s.s 316l plate in wall. Protection that would have lasted for years.

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    Default Re: SEAL’s death prompts look at shoot houses

    RIP... Very unfortunate indeed! My thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends!

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    Default Re: SEAL’s death prompts look at shoot houses

    RIP, Brother.

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    Default Re: SEAL’s death prompts look at shoot houses

    It's a damn tragedy. RIP and thank you for your service!

    But it goes with the territory. The ultra realistic training is just as dangerous as being in an actual firefight. People can and do get killed.

    Since the formation of the 75th, I believe that more Rangers have been killed in training accidents than in combat. (I believe, but not totally sure)
    B 3/75




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    Default Re: SEAL’s death prompts look at shoot houses

    RIP, Sailer

    VO, it might not be that the vest was inferior, it may be some kind of hot shit ammo. They blanked out the ammunition specs on the report. No telling what kind of stuff they experiment with.

    Maybe a dart shooter. I've heard some unverified BS about them.


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