ONCE AGAIN VIETNAM VETS LEFT BEHIND AND ALL BUT FORGOTTEN

[Rocky]

STIGMA KEEPS MANY NEW VETS FROM SEEKING MENTAL
HEALTH CARE. As you read the article below you can see where, once again, Vietnam veterans are being left behind, cast aside and, for all intents and purposes forgotten in the VA system.

I have nothing against today's young soldiers getting help, immediate help, as that is what they deserve and earned through their service to our country, but what about those of us who have been waiting for years for such help as this article reports? How many of us have died awaiting such help? How many of us will continue to wait and die before the VA and other government officials say, "Hey, what about the Vietnam vets, without whom we may have never known about PTSD and it's effect on soldiers in the first place?"

Thousands of Vietnam veterans are waiting, and many have been waiting and fighting for their just benefits and adequate treatment for untold numbers of years, and still we wait for the VA to do the right thing. Since our war was an unpopular war, one that Congress chose to walk away from, we are considered a pain in the side, to be nice, to the VA and Congress who now rallies around the young soldiers of today but pays little, to no, attention to the plight of Nam vets. We still continue to fight for our just benefits and treatment, but in addition, it is we who initiated the fight for veteran to receive treatment and compensation for PTSD. Today the powers that be speak of traumatic brain injury due to explosions, bombs, do they consider or even give thought to the fact that bombs, booby traps and the like were, also, utilized in Vietnam, thus, we too, and likely do, suffer from traumatic brain injury? Once again we are all but forgotten! When will this disgrace end? Will it only come to an end after we are all dead and gone. Seems to be the most likely scenario!

NOTE: All Emphasis added by

Rocky

Waiting room fills with young vets

Meredith May
Chronicle Staff Writer


Four years after the start of the war in Iraq, Dr. Karen Seal took a job at the San Francisco VA Medical Center to work in the liver clinic, treating patients with hepatitis C.

She noticed the veterans in the waiting room. Most of them were from the Vietnam era, in their 60s and older.

But over the months, the faces began to get younger. The waiting room was starting to fill with young men in their late teens and 20s, the first trickle of Bay Area soldiers emotionally and physically injured by the war.

Seal, a primary care physician, began working with them, taking their medical histories and directing them to the right care.

"At the time, I had never heard of PTSD," Seal said. (Can you believe any doctor working at any VA hospital, especially after 4 years as stated above, had never heard of PTSD!?! )

Now she knows how post-traumatic stress disorder contributes to the alcohol addiction and depression she sees in many of her patients.

She made referral after referral to the mental health wing of the VA hospital, but heard from colleagues that those initial patients never made it. It was too much of a stigma - especially in military culture - to walk across the campus to the mental health ward.

So Seal and colleagues got an idea. What if there were a special clinic just for Iraq war veterans that combined primary care and mental health checkups in a nonjudgmental setting? (Emphasis added - note the "just for Iraq War veterans"!)

There were only a few other places in the country that do such a thing - the Department of Defense has a one-stop veterans clinic in Washington, and there was a similar one in Seattle, but it took anyone from the first Gulf War to the present. (Again, nothing mentioned here about Nam vets.)

Finally, in April 2007, San Francisco VA opened a clinic just for Iraq war veterans, calling it the Operation Enduring Freedom/Operation Iraqi Freedom Integrated Care Clinic.

"Now, we see three to seven veteran men, and one or two women, a week," Seal said.

Visitors can drop in and be seen by a primary care doctor and a combat stress specialist. They are screened for post-traumatic stress, depression, alcoholism, and brain injury. If they need help readjusting into civilian life, there's someone to assist with that.

About 1 in 5 is discovered to have post-traumatic stress, but now only 15 percent miss their appointments with mental health workers.

"This job is a gift," Seal said. "To be able to tell them it's normal to jump when they hear a balloon pop or to get nervous on a crowded bus. I can tell them that a lot of their buddies are experiencing the same things."


E-mail Meredith May at mmay@sfchronicle.com.
(Original article posted by VA Watchdog)

[Altimeter]

My dad fought in Vietnam. He has been denied claim after claim since he got back. It is a travesty. The Vietnam vets have been getting shit on since the war and it needs to stop.

[pgpd2134]

It's a really messed-up situation. We need some grunts to take over running the VA and maybe it will get straightened out!

[zuluzerosix]

This doesn't suprise me. The country, as great as it is, doesn't have the best track record for taking care of it's Vets ans Seniors. Just my .02

[Rocky]

My dad fought in Vietnam. He has been denied claim after claim since he got back. It is a travesty. The Vietnam vets have been getting shit on since the war and it needs to stop.

True, very true brother but the worst of it is this, once we old Nam vets are gone you guys will take our place in the "let's fuck over the vets," agenda. It has already started for you younger guys and we Nam vets ain't even dead yet. It was and continues to be a sad day for vets who are no longer in uniform and even for the ones who still are. Fuck the VA and anyone connected to it who makes policy!

[snykypyt]

i have had nothing but positive experiences in my extensive dealing with the VA since 1970.

I can't believe guys are still snivelling that weakass poor me, vietnam vet
crap.
I take pride in having been a warrior and living up to it.
Nobody owes me for anything unpleasant I ever saw or experienced.
I accept treatment for wounds and related physical issues.
Combat paratroopers allowing themselves to whpped by the boogyman is beyond belief.
You take your place in line just like everybody else.

[Bell]

i have had nothing but positive experiences in my extensive dealing with the VA since 1970.

I can't believe guys are still snivelling that weakass poor me, vietnam vet
crap.
I take pride in having been a warrior and living up to it.
Nobody owes me for anything unpleasant I ever saw or experienced.
I accept treatment for wounds and related physical issues.
Combat paratroopers allowing themselves to whpped by the boogyman is beyond belief.
You take your place in line just like everybody else.

You are one in a million. Congratulations for being the one that gets what he needs. I think the VA can use you for PR. I can't think of anyone else though.

RLTW
Bell

[zuluzerosix]

i have had nothing but positive experiences in my extensive dealing with the VA since 1970.

I can't believe guys are still snivelling that weakass poor me, vietnam vet
crap.
I take pride in having been a warrior and living up to it.
Nobody owes me for anything unpleasant I ever saw or experienced.
I accept treatment for wounds and related physical issues.
Combat paratroopers allowing themselves to whpped by the boogyman is beyond belief.
You take your place in line just like everybody else.

Shoshanna Johnson was shot in both ankles in Iraq. Captured. Then she got away when her captors left her alone. The VA initially denied her a PTSD claim. She got a lwyer and finally got her claim approved.

There is your beloved VA for you. And she wasn't even a Paratrooper. Guess she wasn't as hard as you.

[Altimeter]

i have had nothing but positive experiences in my extensive dealing with the VA since 1970.

I can't believe guys are still snivelling that weakass poor me, vietnam vet
crap.
I take pride in having been a warrior and living up to it.
Nobody owes me for anything unpleasant I ever saw or experienced.
I accept treatment for wounds and related physical issues.
Combat paratroopers allowing themselves to whpped by the boogyman is beyond belief.
You take your place in line just like everybody else.

I and my father have taken our turn in line, and have been shit on. I am so proud you have had such a wonderful experience with the VA. At least you have accepted treatment with them. My father barely gets seen, and when he does he is denied treatment. 99.99% of the people who have dealt with the VA have had nothing but problems with them. You are an anamoly with the VA system, my friend.

[Rocky]

i have had nothing but positive experiences in my extensive dealing with the VA since 1970.

I can't believe guys are still snivelling that weakass poor me, vietnam vet
crap.
I take pride in having been a warrior and living up to it.
Nobody owes me for anything unpleasant I ever saw or experienced.
I accept treatment for wounds and related physical issues.
Combat paratroopers allowing themselves to whpped by the boogyman is beyond belief.
You take your place in line just like everybody else.

I am happy to hear that you are one of the lucky one who has received good treatment from the VA, and yes, there are some Nam vets who do, however, there are those who do not and their standing up for their rights as vets does not make them whiners, weak, or cry babies, in fact, it makes them stronger than those who would criticize them for standing up than those who simply say I got mine stop crying. I have been doing VA claims for Vets for over 15 years, free of charge and on my own not as any organizations service rep, but simply a brother trying to help other brothers, and yes, I am 100%. Therefore, I have seen, perhaps, things that you are unaware of or, perhaps, choose to just overlook since you are getting such good service yourself. To be honest brother, and you are still a brother even though I disagree with your statement above, your statement makes you and those like you a part of the problem not the solution to the problems other vets, unlike you face with the VA on a daily basis. Many vets have to fight for any thing they get from the VA and, like you, they earned good treatment not turned backs. One vet was told to go to Mexico, by the VA doctors, for dental work and he retired with 21 years service and was a survivor of Battle, of Dak To, mainly Hill 875 with the 173rd Airborne, and many other battles. Dose that make him a whiner? I think not, in fact, I know not. It makes him a vet who the VA has turned their back on.

Do you help vets who are getting less from the VA that you or do you simply say I got mind so you guys stop crying? That is what your post sounds like to me. I believe in leave no man behind and that includes here in America. Personally, I feel that if you are only going to call names and not help your brother vets out who need help then it is probably best that you just take what you get and count yourself lucky but not belittle those who are still hurting for any adequate care. Just my opinion but I stand by it just as it appears you do yours.

[Altimeter]

Good post Rocky. You hit the points I was too angry to see in mine.

[VoTrooper99]

The VA, like most of the rest of the government, is all jacked up in paperwork, nonchalance, red tape, and expense. While each era of veteran fights for their piece of the pie, we should remember a few things:

1. Don't eat our own. If the Iraq Vets are getting their due, we shouldn't be angry with them for it, and we sure shouldn't do or say anything to get their services cut back in favor of any other group.

2. Same goes for those who get their treatment or don't need any. Just because it's all sunshine and lollipops for one vet doesn't mean it is the same for another vet. I'd be careful about discounting another vet because he isn't "just like you".

The average veteran, much less the average civilian, doesn't even know what the VA is actually supposed to do besides hand out disability checks. Until the PEOPLE start to understand the system, it will continue to be broken.

[Altimeter]

The average veteran, much less the average civilian, doesn't even know what the VA is actually supposed to do besides hand out disability checks. Until the PEOPLE start to understand the system, it will continue to be broken.

I agree with your points, but I must add that the VA doesnt just hand out checks. They are 'earned', not handouts.

[Rocky]

The VA, like most of the rest of the government, is all jacked up in paperwork, nonchalance, red tape, and expense. While each era of veteran fights for their piece of the pie, we should remember a few things:

1. Don't eat our own. If the Iraq Vets are getting their due, we shouldn't be angry with them for it, and we sure shouldn't do or say anything to get their services cut back in favor of any other group.

2. Same goes for those who get their treatment or don't need any. Just because it's all sunshine and lollipops for one vet doesn't mean it is the same for another vet. I'd be careful about discounting another vet because he isn't "just like you".

The average veteran, much less the average civilian, doesn't even know what the VA is actually supposed to do besides hand out disability checks. Until the PEOPLE start to understand the system, it will continue to be broken.

Exactly correct brother, no vet should be treated above another, except of course, when emergency treatment or attention is needed. All vets should be treated fairly no matter their period of service, or gender for that matter.

What gets me is the unequal treatment received by some vets based on their period of service or what state they may be from. The Regional Offices across the country do not follow federal law, or interpret differently, when it comes to the handling of VA claims, and, in some states, treatment as well. I do claims from all over the country and I have seen the disparity in the way certain states handle claims verses the way they are handled in other states.

I just did a claim for an 86 year old WWII vet who had been put at the bottom of the pile, I feel, simply because he was 86 and not expected to live much longer. This was a MI case, by the way. I took going to his C-man and to the Regional Director directly to get this mans case looked at. Finally after much letter writing and investigating this man's claim was granted and he went from zero to 70% disabled in one swift move. Of course it had taken him years of fighting to get to this point. Up until then he was surviving on $800 per month and living in someones garage.

In another case a vet was turned down, and believe it or not, the reason given was that he did not have a CIB so how could he be filing for PTSD? This, of course, if not what the law requires or states but simply the way this individual adjudicator read and applied the law. This was a Texas case.

My feeling is that every vet should be treated fairly, and equally based on the law, and the urgency of their particular need. Of course if a man needs immediate medical care he should get it, after all, it is earned, as has been stated, not a hand out. Again, as has been stated, no particular grouping of veterans should ever be placed above another. It should matter not what period of time one may have served in as to how the individual veteran is treated. The federal laws need to be adhered to and followed equally be each state. If a vet is deserving of a certain treatment or disability then he/she should get it. This is another point, male veterans are treated differently than female veterans in way too many states.

I work with, and for, vets from all periods of service and make no distinction between them. Although I am a Vietnam vet myself I do not put Vietnam vets above other vets when it comes to my assisting them in any way I can. I think this is the right thing to do, at least it is for me, as I see veterans as veterans and people not from the perspective of what war they might have served in, or if they served in peace time verses a war. I stress this point as I want to make it quite clear that I personally see all vets and vets plain and simple. However, I know that some service officers and some service organizations do not see things the way I do. (I do not work for any service organization by the way but as an individual acting as the veterans Agent pursuant to Title 38 USC) That does not make me better than them, in any way, it is just the way I personally see and do things.

Personally, I see it as my duty to help other vets. I do not work as I am 100% disabled both under the VA and SS so I have time to devote to this, what I call, my mission. I do not expect anyone to do anything that I do as each person has their own mission in this life. However, I do take exception when I hear one vet call other vets whiners or cry babies for fighting for what they have earned as I see this as a part of the overall problem in that it causes some vets to not seek the help they need for fear that someone will look down on them. I have had Iraqi vets tell me that they will not attend PTSD groups for this very reason. Some of these vets have ended up taking their own lives. Therefore, I encourage all vets to seek help if they feel they need it and tell them they should not worry what others think of them for doing so as it is their life they are talking about and their own well being not someone else's.

I am no different, better or worse, than any other vet and I see all vets as brothers and sisters, if they are in fact vets. Wannabes are a totally different story and when I discover one I do all I can to expose them for they are stealing from true vets in many ways.

The division of vets is something that, I see, as working in the governments/VA best interest as if they can divide us then they can control us by pitting us against each other. I have been told by Iraqi vets that they have been told by some VA officials not to associate or take advice from Vietnam vets as we will lead them down the wrong path. This of course is not truth, but, nonetheless, it has, and continues to, happen.

If I say something here on this site to offend anyone I apologize for doing so as it is not my intent. I do not apologize for saying what I believe to be true, correct, or fact, but for causing someone distress because it may not be what they feel is truth, correct or fact. I, encourage everyone to voice their opinions on anything I say here. If I say something that is in error, please point it out to me and I will correct my error if possible.

I seek not to cause division between anyone, any group of vets, any class of vet here, but rather to unit us all for the same cause, that of fair and adequate treatment by the VA and our government. The word class is another pet peeve of mine as I see no classes of veterans only veterans who have served honorably and, in some cases, at great cost to themselves and their families. The class system is the invention of those who would and have divided us, to some extent, to serve the purpose of the almighty dollar. My opinion but one I firmly believe.

[zuluzerosix]

I just did a claim for an 86 year old WWII vet who had been put at the bottom of the pile, I feel, simply because he was 86 and not expected to live much longer. This was a MI case, by the way. I took going to his C-man and to the Regional Director directly to get this mans case looked at. Finally after much letter writing and investigating this man's claim was granted and he went from zero to 70% disabled in one swift move. Of course it had taken him years of fighting to get to this point. Up until then he was surviving on $800 per month and living in someones garage.

This is exactly what I am talking about. This pisses me off to no end. Sonofabitch!